From: DCBURROWS@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:48 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] Re: whirring noise = torque tube The tube in my 87 A/T started by making a rattling sound at slow idle and when being shut down. After about 1,500 miles this was joined by what I consider a normal bearing noise. It never made what I would call a whirring noise. My end play was checked by driving the car to warm it up thoroughly, removing the lower rear flywheel cover, clamping on a dial indicating micrometer to measure the movement of the flex plate hub and then loosening the clamp bolt on the hub. The hub mover toward the rear about .025 in., meaning that the drive shaft had been pushing the crankshaft forward, and against the rear surface of the thrust bearing. While still hot, the flywheel was pried towards the rear of the car by .002 in. and the clamp bolt tightened. The micrometer was left on and showed that the driveshaft had pulled the crank about .005 rearward as the driveline cooled overnight. It was left clamped at that position. Good luck. Don Burrows 87 S4, A/T, (For Sale) From: DCBURROWS@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:38 AM To: 928 Subject: [928] TT Removal Adam, The manual calls for removing the suspension first and then the tranny. One lister reported that he was able to leave the front trailing arm pivots connected and swiveled the suspension down and forward. I tried this but felt that it would interfere with removal of the tranny. Off the top of my head, I don't think that you can get the tube out without disconnecting the tranny from the suspension. There are a bunch of wires, mostly from the brake sensors that should be disconnected from the suspension and the connectors near the spare tire well. You will also need to disconnect the parking brake cable near the lever and pull it out of the tube that routes it back to the brakes. I assume that you have disconnected the trans oil cooler lines and other connections from the tranny. You will also have to remove the clamps that hold the lines to the tube. I wished that I had taken a photo or made a drawing of the cooler line routing but in my case it was quite a while from removal to replacement. The rear end of my shaft was very tight in the splined hub on the converter flex plate and I had to pry the tt/tranny back from the engine with the front flex plate clamped tight to pull the shaft out of the tranny. It took several repeats to free the shaft. At this point you may find yourself reconsidering your opinion of the labor hours quoted. Good luck, and let me know if you would like to discuss this on the phone. Don Burrows 87 S4, A/T, (For Sale) From: DCBURROWS@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:21 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] Re: FW: Tube Valur, My 87 started with a rattling noise such as you describe, that later developed into a typical steady worn bearing noise over about 1000 miles or so. If you have a 5-speed you can try sitting with the car in gear and the clutch depressed. If the rattle persists under those conditions then it's not the tube. If you listen with a stethoscope you might be able to pinpoint the source of the sound. David Roberts, of 928 Specialists recommended Driveline Services for a rebuild of the torque tube. Their phone # is 404 361-9111. Their address is 4652B Jonesboro Rd., Forest Park, GA 30297. You could contact David at 770 928-4777 to find out who could the R&R. While the car is that much apart, you might consider putting new seals and bearings in the torque converter and replacing the rear crank seal. Good luck! Don Burrows 87 S4, A/T From: Adam Birnbaum [adamb777@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:24 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] Re: 32mm axle nuts...OFF!! Tony wrote: > Question to one and all in the know...what parts of the suspension REALLY > have to be removed to drop the tranny. Ive studied it and have a good idea > but am trying to prevent any uneccesary work....looks like some of it can > stay, not much but some of it. Hey Tony, I really wasted a lot time trying to make not doing "the full drop" work. There just wasn't enough clearance to lower the tranny and suspension as one unit for enough to pull out the tube. A lot of this had to do with the heat shield from the gas tank being in the way. It looked like it was pop riveted on, so I didn't want to mess with removing it. I ended up dropping the rear crossmember with the spindles, discs, half shafts, shocks, and lower arms are still attached, all as one unit. I had to loosen the lower shock mounts so I could pull the shocks parallel to the floor. I rested the entire assembly on two 12" 2x4 sections, one each under the shock mounts, and slid the whole assembly out from under the car. I then dropped the tranny, also onto two 12" 2X4 sections, one under the differential, and one under the portion between the pan and the bellhousing. It was definitely worth while having all that room to work under the car with everything out. If your rear lock collar is anywhere as tight as mine was, you are going to want to drop all that stuff anyway so that you have plenty of room on the re-install of the tranny. BEWARE, that when you are bolting the tranny onto the TT flange, that the drive shaft is actually going into the rear hub, and NOT that the rear hub is pushing the drive shaft forward through the tube. Good luck, and don't forget to swap converter bearings while you are in there, and check out your rear main seal. -Adam Birnbaum '88 S4 A/T - "BTDT, and still having nightmares" From: Paul Jager [pjager@mnrcan.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:18 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] RE: Torque Tube Bearings & Tube Rattle I am going to replace the bearings on the rattling tube I took apart last year, and found some interesting things when sourcing the SKF replacements. The SKF part number I have for an 87 tube is 6006 2Z C5 HT51 This bearing is a Metric (6006) Double Metal "Z'" Shielded (2Z) Highest Clearance between the balls and race (C5) and Hi temp greased= HT51(-30 to +150 DegC). Now the standard running clearance is CN to C3. The standard grease and clearance are good for quite a temperature range. The C5 - which is a special and rarely specified, has excess clearance so when the bearing heats up it will not bind I suppose. Clearance or play on the front bearing is what creates the tube rattle. The tube I took out was fine except for a lot of play. The tube I replaced it with (60K miles from an 87) had much less play, but still would rattle if the shaft was struck with a rubber mallet. I also let the front bearing soak up some synthetic grease before installation. The converters operate at high temperature (~700 DegC), so I am wondering is the temperature inside the tube above 110DegC in normal operation? Also a clearance spec of C3 would certainly reduce the tube rattle. From: Jay Gary Wellwood [mailto:wellwood@cswnet.com] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 2:34 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] Re: Torque tube disassembly Dan I used a block of wood and a hammer to drift out the shaft from the bearings. (Be sure to measure the position of the bearing/carrier in the tube PRIOR to doing this) From the front of the TT, I used a piece of 3/8 inch all thread and a piece of 1 inch plate material with an oblong hole in it to allow the plate to swivel. Using a double nut on the end of the all thread, and a brace at the top of the tube, I was able to position the square plate on the backside of the bearing/carrier. Then using a large washer and nut assemble, I jacked the bearing/carrier out of the TT shell using a wrench. I also sprayed WD-40 on the walls of the TT housing to provide a bit of lubrication. Repeat for the remaining bearing/carriers. FWIW - be sure to closely look at the rubber gaskets which seal the bearing carriers to the TT housing. The rear of the TT probably won't let you do the above - unless you remove the Harmonic Balancer (which didn't look like fun to me or replace for that matter). As a side note - I guess you could take it out and leave it on the bench as the Club Sport models didn't include the harmonic balancer in the TT. hth- Jay 87 S4 Auto From: Brendan Campion [mailto:brendancampion@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:58 PM To: 928 Subject: [928] Re: Torque converter bearings? ...Barry - I purchased my bearings from A&W bearing. Fast service, good phone people. 6006 for the TT, and 6008 for the TC. www.http://www.awbearings.com/awbearings/dbinfo.asp?key=349546&Product=B But you don't really need the circlip, so they are 17 something each. I am not sure where marc got his.... I am still currently trying to figure out how to press the carriers out. HTH, Brendan