From: Eric Von Baranov [eric@kondratyev.com] on behalf of Dbrindle (E-mail) [dbrindle@kondratyev.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 2:51 AM To: 928 Subject: [928] RE: Help on market value for a 928 in Denver Bill, It is impossible to tell you a value of this car. With a new car there is a tight range. With a 20 year old 928 the range is wide indeed. At some point on the low end of the range the car becomes worth more in parts than as a car. This is one of the reasons we see so many people parting 928s out on eBay. The initial sale price of a 928 exasperates this issue. Because it is a world class performance car that sold at the very high end of the price scale replacement parts are very expensive and still priced at the high end of the range. Prices of parts have not declined much and certainly have not kept pace with the decline in the price of the cars. Parts on these car fail with a consistency that is predictable over time. As a result the parts you will generally need will be only be available new. With a limited number of cars manufactured few third party manufactures have picked up the slack. Try buying a engine gasket set for an auto parts supply house. They do not have them and from the big three the complete gaskets set is $400. Further complicating the pricing structure is the move towards the 928 becoming a collector's item. As a collectors car certain aspects of the car's condition and model year help in part determine value. An all-original low mileage car will command a premium over a car in equal condition with higher miles and a re-paint. The same with years. The 78, 84, 86.5, 89GT and 95GTS will all command a premium because of the year and number made. The 84 will command a premium because it was the last 16 valve US model made, although the premium is small. The biggest factor is condition. I have created a PPI and a model with a point system for coming close to actual value. The model will not determine an absolute price for an individual car but it will allow different cars to be compared on a logical and rational basis. http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/ppi/ppi.htm I will add a couple of comments here of common mistakes I see new 928 buyers make. The first is mileage. Mileage is irrelevant especially for a 20 year old car. I have seen cars with 150K miles in much better condition than ones with a third the mileage. It is not unreasonable to assume sellers set speedometers back or fail to replace broken odometers. The odometer gear is a common failure point on the early cars. Looking at the average mileage on wrecked cars and comparing it to the average mileage advertised on eBay there is a major discrepancy. Age is a greater factor than miles. With the 928 things just rot. So if the car has sat it is not really an advantage. At some point all of the hoses and other rubber goodies have to be replaced and mileage does not enter into this equation. It is different if the car has been stored in a time vault with ideal temperature and humidity conditions. Unfortunately, seldom is this the case. Repair records. It is nice to have a history of repairs. Given the type of butchering I have witnessed on these cars by :"qualified" Porsche mechanics repair records only tell you how much has been screw up on the car and how bad a screwing the previous owner took at the hands of incompetent and dishonest shops. I am in shock at the level of this incompetence. It is certainly higher on the 928. I assume this is in part a result of the limited quantities of 928s made and the radical departure Porsche made in the design. Every year has its own special issues and the average Porsche mechanic working on a range of Porsches does not have the in-depth background for the car. When in doubt they will generally go for the expensive repair hoping to either scare the owner into not doing the work or making enough on the job to cover the learning experience and mistakes made along the way. Remember the average Porsche mechanic has a hard time locating the engine in a 928. The engine. One of the greatest concerns for the new buyer is the cost of an engine. This is coupled with mileage. The motor on the 928 is the strongest part of the car. Since a 16 valve engine is a non-interference engine there is no worries in breaking a timing belt and damaging the engine. The worst that happens is a tow home. The engine in these cars will be running far longer than the rest of the car. It is the little things that cost and create troubles - not the engine. I have taken apart engines with 150K miles and found them to in perfect shape with little or no wear - certainly not enough wear to cause concern. A price range on an 84 will vary from $2000 for a parts car to $10000+ for a concourse car. Average price in the $4000 to $6000 range. Figure spending the difference between the $10,000 and the price you pay for the car in the first year or two to bring the car up to top condition. That is if you pay $4000 then figure spending $6000 to set the car right. If you pay $7000 then figure spending $3000 to set the car right. I hope this helps and good luck Dan the Pod Guy.