Subject: Re: 1987 S4 in Delaware From: Michael Gerard Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:15:43 -0400 X-Message-Number: 54 At 09:49 AM 4/15/99 , you wrote: >b.) if anyone more knowledgeable than I (now there's an open field!) would >be available and willing to accompany me at the dealership (9am-10am) to >give me their opinion of the vehicle. I'd be more than willing to >compensate for their time and effort. > Don - If the car is at a Porsche dealership you really don't need anyone to accompany you (although there's nothing wrong with that). You'll be able to judge the aesthetics of the car yourself... and even some of the more unusual things that the dealer might not even think about (or a salestype would know about) such as belly pans, cooling hoses to the brakes and alternator, cargo covers, tool kit/compressor, cargo net, lower front spoiler, etc. If the dealership doesn't already have a mechanical appraisal of the vehicle completed for your inspection, go ahead and offer to pay $50 - $100 for a complete prepurchase inspection... deductible from the final negotiated price of the car if you buy it. I'd personally avoid inspecting a car at a Porsche dealership on a Saturday unless their shop is open and a Porsche mechanic is around to talk to... at the very least you want to be able to have them put it up in the air for you so you can visually inspect the oil pan for leaks, the air-conditioning lines, boots and front suspension and the steering rack (which at 110k is likely due for replacement some time soon). When you test drive the car, if it's an automatic, test the kickdown switch. If it's a manual, see if there is any sloppiness in the shifting particularly between 1st & 2nd and 2nd & third... or is the throw difficult... that will alert you to the health of the synchros. Obviously, pay attention to the free play in the clutch. Drive the car long enough to get as close to normal operating temperature as possible... many cars don't exhibit problems until they've reached temperature. Test ALL electrical accessories, including the air-conditioning, light switches, windows, fan speeds, panel dimmer switch, electric seats, climate control settings, side mirrors, etc. Watch the voltage gauge. The salesperp will be so impressed (or annoyed) that they'll probably ask how many 928's you own. Speaking of salesperps... don't bother asking them questions that you know they are going to make up answers to... if they are under 30 years old (likely, on a Saturday at a Porsche dealership) about all they know regarding the 928 is what they saw in Risky Business... if they are old enough to remember that! Save the real questions for a mechanic who has looked at the car and knows how to read tech bulletins. Keep in mind, at 110k miles the car is due for it's SECOND water pump/timing belt change (every 50k - 60k). There's a lot that is due at that age/mileage to be done.. and that doesn't mean that the car isn't worth purchasing as it is all normal maintenance. But you should be aware that the expenses are coming and get them to do as much as possible before purchasing. I guess what I'm saying is don't confuse normal maintenance requirements/needs with repair work. Just use your knowledge as a negotiating tool to get a fair price. You probably won't get them to do the water pump/t-belt or the steering rack, but they may be willing to do a whole bunch of nit-picky little things like replace missing air flow vents/hoses, track down electrical gremlins (often created by mismatched bulbs that change the resistance and confuse the computer). If the belly pans are missing, as they often are, the cost to replace them is around $400. At least at a Porsche dealership they'll actually know what belly pans are not stare at you as if you're speaking to them in Latin. If they can document to you that the t-belt and w-pump have been changed within the last 10k - 15k miles then they likely won't move too much off of the asking price... and if they can also document a steering rack don't count on getting much of a break. Those three added up, using rebuilt parts, runs $2,000 min w/labor. If they won't move on price (and what they are asking is NOT too bad for a car in need of little work) then ask for a 14 day or 30 day warranty on all powertrain, electrical and climate control stuff... hey, if you don't ask, they won't offer! Hell, ask for a new steering wheel cover kit! All that said, unless you are set on an S4 I would suggest you talk to Mr. Ed Ruiz of Frenzy and 928 list fame about the 86.5 he has for sale in that same price range... but with thousands of dollars of performance upgrades (and the knowledge that you're buying a car from someone who REALLY knows the car. Ed lives in northern Virginia and the car can be seen at: http://www.en.com/users/mgerard/ruiz001.htm Good luck... let us know how it goes.